Who ya got? The Redskins’ WRs and TEs… or the Cowboys’?

I think the snap reaction is to say, “Really?!? It’s the Cowboys.”  When you think about Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, and Jason Witten, it’s natural to come to that immediate conclusion, as there’s no question that the Redskins can’t match the Cowboys’ top 3.  However, in the same way that Cosmo Kramer taught us that poise is just as important as the swimsuit, evening wear, and talent portions of the Miss America contest, I’m here to remind you that depth is kind of important in the NFL. At the very least, I feel that there’s some debate here.

Position Redskins Cowboys
WR1 Pierre Garcon Miles Austin
WR2 Santana Moss Dez Bryant
WR3 Leonard Hankerson Kevin Ogletree (or other)
WR4 Josh Morgan Danny Coale (or other)
TE1 Fred Davis Jason Witten
TE2 Chris Cooley John Phillips
TE3 Niles Paul James Hanna

So… Who ya got?

63 Comments

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  4. Highly descriptive post, I liked that bit. Will there be a part 2?

  5. Dez Bryant's Probation Officer says:

    Best summary of the debate so far.
    Trapper >>>>> Jimmy

  6. Ben says:

    This isn’t even close, you’re over valuing the Redskins WR depth IMO. TE is close, but honestly, Josh Morgan is a JAG, Garcon is inconsistent, Hankerson is all potential at this point, and Moss is more possession receiver at this point in his career. Cowboys WR’s >>>>> Redskins WR’s

  7. Mr.Electric10 says:

    I think its still the Cowboys but not by as much as people would originally think. If the Redskins had someone who was near Austin or Dez I could vote for the Skins. But the margin between Austin and Dez vs Garcon and Moss is just too big (assuming Dez isnt suspended for his off the field incident).

    1. SkinsaneAsylum says:

      that case is in the hands of the DA now, so it might be a pretty big assumption that he doesnt miss any time for this incident

  8. Tracer Bullet says:

    Blech. Morgan is JAG, Hankerson is a rookie and Garcon has yet to show he can be a #1. Dallas, at least at present, doesn’t actually have any backups and Washington’s backups are not good outside of Cooley. But Dallas can at least expect their top three to be very good while Washington has to aspire to be average.

    1. Tracer Bullet says:

      Sorry. Hankerson is a second-year player. Still, after 13 catches last year, it’s not like there’s any reason to believe he’s ready to become a part of the offense.

      1. ct17 says:

        WRs typically start slow in the NFL. Which is why the Redskins have a deeper WR squad right now. But I like Coale and think he can develop into a good #3 or 4 WR.

        1. Tracer Bullet says:

          That’s just it, I don’t think Washington is all that deep. Hankerson had done nothing of note. Morgan only had 698 yards on 44 catches in his best season (2010) and suffered an ugly broken leg last year. He’s never caught more than three TDs. And while you can put some of that on Alex Smith, it’s not like he was competing with Rice and Taylor for catches.

          1. slandog says:

            Bryant has really shown much on the WR level IMO. He’s had a good game now and then, but hell every WR does. He’s not nearly the WR that everyone thought he’d be……..yet.

    2. D.L. says:

      Agreed. This looks more like one of those vacuous ESPN polls than anything else.

      1. DerfDiggy says:

        Yea, it’s strange.

        What team’s QB’s would you prefer?

        Vick/Kafka or Griffen/Rex/Kirk Cousins

        One has more depth/experience….but you’d be a fool to pick the Skins over Vick/Kafka at this point.

        1. SkinsaneAsylum says:

          Really? In a one year scenario, yes absolutely. Beyond that…..you have to take youth and upside over the aging, injury prone Mike Vick.

          1. DerfDiggy says:

            We’re only talking a one year scenario. Of course age and whatnot come into play down the line, and for future decisions, but from the context i’m taking from the original article is that. Based on Depth…the redskins could be the better group.

            Which doesn’t make sense to me, because based on depth…The Skins have the best group of QB’s with the most experience and superbowl appearances besides the Giants. I’m just making a point.

            If you’re talking about the teams as they are currently constructed.
            The Eagles QB’s > Redskins.
            Cowboys WR/TE’s > Redskins.

            To say otherwise is…would be blatant homer’ism…imo.

            But heyy maybe i’m just Homer DerfDiggy….don’t mind me.

            1. SkinsaneAsylum says:

              well as a skins homer (and damn proud to be one :) ) i will admit i see a lot of people, including you, using pretty solid arguements for both sides.

              again, for the WR/TE debate it comes down to individual preference. do you take two studs and some JAGs or do you take 2 above average guys, 2 solid contributors and some JAGs with upside (Niles Paul at TE).

              as for the Eagles/Skins QB question, i stated above that in a one year scenario you take Vick hands down. however, its amazing how quickly that can all change in the NFL. Injuries are part of life in the NFL. Its unbelievable how nervous I already am that RG3 might get injured. Now i know how you eagles fans feel having Vick as your QB. You may be on the edge of your seat for more than just the amazing athleticism he displays…

  9. rage114 says:

    Cowboys, easily. Depth is important but top end talent is more important.

    Additionally, depth is only really a bonus if the QB distributes the ball to all those receivers.

  10. SkinsaneAsylum says:

    I think the answer here is pretty obvious and Jimmy K and most of the people commenting are hitting the nail on the head.

    It comes down to what you prefer. Pretend you are the coach of both teams, in what situation are you the msot comfortable going into the season?

    Some people are going to say “Give me the depth, injuries are a part of life in the NFL and I want a larger number of people who can step in and contribute”

    Some people are going to say “Give me the “big guns” in Dallas. They can rack up more fantasy points for me.”

    I think your poll will be pretty even down the middle with people liking both situations. As for the guy who was nice enough to blurt out that just Witten alone makes it a non-contest….thanks for giving us all a chuckle. Spoken like someone who didnt even look into the question before he yelled out the first thing that came to his mind.

    Anyway, as a Skins fan I give all due respect to Witten as a more complete TE in regards to both pass catching as well as blocking. However, it is not a very large margin over Fred Davis. As someone pointed out above, both have similar stats so we need to look deeper. The crazy thing is, if you say that the intagibles like maturity go to Witten, the downside of that is age. Fred Davis has the upside of being 24/25 with his potential not even fully realized yet. Now you add RG3 and things are going to be interesting.

    I voted for Skins, obviously :) . But I do personally like the overall quality depth at WR. Who knows, Garcon may light it up this year too and make this a convincing win by seasons end in the Skins favor.

    Jimmy, we should revisit this question at the Bye week and EOY.

    1. ameero2 says:

      Actually it’s pretty funny that you should say that because I didn’t read the article before I posted and just reacted to what I thought was a ridiculous question, my bad.

      Now after reading the article I still think the cowboys receiving options are better and I even think that their backups might be better. Hankerson played how many games in his ROOKIE season before he got hurt? so lets not anoint him the best of all backups in the beast just yet.

      1. Steve D. says:

        “I even think that their backups might be better”

        -That is just silly. I picked the cowboys, because I think the difference between Miles and Dez and Garcon and Moss makes up for the lack of depth, but there is no reason anyone can say with any credibility that the cowboys’s backups are better than the the skins backups.

        1. ameero2 says:

          might is the operative word in my statement. I’m not saying that the cowboys’ backups are definitely better or that that is why the cowboys are better overall. I’m just saying that I’m not convinced that the so called redskins “depth” really exists.

          1. Steve D. says:

            Cool. I understand what you are saying a little better.

      2. SkinsaneAsylum says:

        hah no worries my man. i give the nod to witten this coming season for sure, but i think it could be close. past this year, you gotta take the young stud over the aging possible HOF’er

  11. juz saying says:

    No Contest,Dallas,None of The Skins WR”s could start for Dallas

    1. RogerPodacter says:

      i dont think you really read the part with the drawn out seinfeld analogy saying that depth is just as important.
      sure, the cowboys have 3 big players, but it looks like they have NOTHING beyond that. at least the redskins have at least 4 solid options plus some pretty good backups.

      that said, i still pick the cowboys. mostly because i give witten extra points for being a more complete TE than what the skins have. his receiving numbers might be even, but i think witten is a more complete player.

      is it just me or does it look like the cowboys will be running a lot of 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB (or 1 RB + 1 FB) looks this season? i mean… who else are they going to put in there?

      1. DerfDiggy says:

        Depth is only depth if it’s needed.

        He asked what teams wr’s/te’s would you choose…

        Not…”Who’s team would be better if injury or suspension occured”

        Of course that’s the team with more Depth. Hopefully neither team has to go that far down the depth chart that it matters.

        Cowboys have better WR’s…pretty easily in fact.

        1. slandog says:

          better at the top without a doubt. But overall I’m not so sure.

          1. DerfDiggy says:

            You’re playing what if’s though…”What if a Dallas WR gets hurt”…

            What if Santana goes down?
            What if the wind blows 180 mph in a sleet storm?!

            A great deal of a Dallas’ playbook relies on 2 TE sets. Quite a few plays require only 1 or 2 WR’s. Any way you slice it…Miles vs. Pierre, Dez vs. Moss, Dez vs. Pierre, etc…the WR’s on Dallas are better…Witten vs. Davis is the closest you’ll get to an argument…

            So yea…Depth wise…Skins have it, but if you’re taking the Boys best vs. the Skins best…which is what happens when you look at rosters on paper. The Cowboys are better at those positions, and it’s not even close.

            1. yehti says:

              ^^^this

            2. BigDaddyTM says:

              Derf I believe your wrong. Sorry. Read my post earlier in this discussion. Your leaning very heavily on Dez, but he’s an inconsistent headcase. You never know when he’s going to show up and for how long. He’s got crazy talent but that doesn’t mean a thing if the Boys can’t consistently access it. The cowboys have TWO options that are better then the Skins.

              To be honest though this discussion needs an asterisks next to it. Tony Romo is LIGHT YEARS ahead in talent when compared to Rex Grossmen. Griff is more on a par athletically and skill set wise with Tony (more so, actually, but
              Griff being a rookie, to me, evens this out somewhat). I would love to have this discussion at mid season before the two teams meet on Thanksgiving. We will have a better sample size for the current situation(s) at that point…We really have no idea how Pierre and Josh are going to be used or how they will acclimate themselves to the new system. The Skins have a Rook at QB. We have no idea how long or IF Dez is going to be suspended and how this whole ordeal will be dealt with by him. We have no idea how well Miles, Chris and Hankerson are doing coming off of their respective injuries. We don’t know about the cowboys rookies coming in. We don’t know about Niles and his transition to TE. And we don’t even know if Ogletree is going to be on the cowboys roster at the beginning of the season (for ya’lls sake I hope not) !!

              That’s a lot of variables for this type of discussion…

        2. RogerPodacter says:

          i dont disagree with you. however, when jimmy says to take depth as a consideration, i feel that i should, you know, take depth as a consideration.

  12. bula says:

    i picked the cowboys too. i wouldn’t say that jason witten alone puts them on top. that’s saying that fred davis and chris cooley are a bunch of slouches

  13. yehti says:

    Jimmy can you add stats to the list

  14. ameero2 says:

    Honestly is this a joke Jason Witten alone puts the cowboys on top. People who voted for the skins are in severe denial about their team.

    1. Kevin says:

      You’re right. I’m so mad about it I could hit my Mom.

      1. yehti says:

        poor taste

        1. slandog says:

          but funny, Bryant is a douche

        2. BigDaddyTM says:

          And making a point. Dez’s immature behavior is a factor here. Let’s really look at this as football people and not fans, shall we. Miles is the top wideout on this list but he can’t stay healthy. He routinely misses chunks of the season to injury. Now, he’s tough so you don’t see it in his career stats but, for example, I know that he was hurt almost from the beginning of 2010 (however, played in every game) and it affected his stats, I’m sure every cowboy fan will agree. Pierre’s hands are suspect, ’nuff said.

          1. BigDaddyTM says:

            Dez is a head case, always has been. He’s also VERY inconsistent. As a matter of fact he is so inconsistent that he is consistent. Dez shows for halves of football and you can tell which half he may show up for by his reaction to the ball the first time it’s thrown to him. He’s an OK blocker due to his inconsistency (this kid SHOULD be a beast! Any idiot can see that he has crazy talent but he’s a head case!!) It will be interesting what his numbers are when/IF he puts together a full game. Tanna is consistant. Always. He’s tough, a great route runner and though he has slowed some with age is still very dangerous after the catch. Has very good hands and is a good blocker.

            1. BigDaddyTM says:

              Kevin Ogletree is a bit of a mystery. I say that because last season the kid looked completely lost whenever I saw him play (he’s a 3 yr VET!!!). He was being told what to do by Tony at the line (saw it happen at least twice at the end of games) for goodness sakes (this isn’t backyard ball)! He must have SOME talent or he wouldn’t be on the team. However, that being said his lack of dependability gets him a very low rank at WR in my book. Look, he’s been on the Boys squad for THREE SEASONS now and he only had 14 rec in 14 games last season! Hank only got two starts last season but produced in both. The second start is where he started to show off a little bit (8 rec for 106 yards 13.3 avg with a long of 22 yards). This was before he got injured…during this performance! Yeah, he had time for more. Now, I’m not a Hankerson fan at this point but he started to open my eyes while I was watching this. He only played in four games total and his numbers where comparable to Kevin’s. Guess who is the better receiver here?

          2. BigDaddyTM says:

            Danny Coale is next…who is this exactly…? He’s a Rook if you didn’t know. Unfortunately for both him and the cowboys he broke his foot during the first OTA’s this year. We don’t know anything about him. Josh Morgan we do know something about. He’s been the 49ers top wideout the past couple of seasons before breaking his leg five games into the year in 2011. Like Tanna, he actually compares favorably to all of the cowboy receivers after Miles. Dez has more numbers but his being a headcase is why Josh is a better pick for me. You never know when a headcase is going to go bipolar on you. Also, Josh has a higher yards per catch then Dez with a much weaker QB throwing him the ball in Alex Smith (and whoever else the 49ers tossed behind center over the past four seasons). Josh is also a good blocker down field. Two reasons the Skins brought him into camp are his rec average and his blocking skills.

          3. BigDaddyTM says:

            Jason Witten has been a great TE for quite some time. His numbers are Hall of Fame-esk. Comparing his career to Fred Davis’s would be a disservice to Jason as a player AND a man. Seriously. BUT, this question is about THIS season (and moving forward, I presume) and honestly Fred is the better of the two as a playmaker. To be honest, we’re talking age here. Their numbers are neck and neck but Fred played four fewer games due to suspension (that big dummy, leave the MJ alone!). He was more dynamic and did more with the football when it (finally) got to him. That being said I would pick Witten over Freddie D…for one more season. Mostly because Jason is a much better blocker (part of the TE job). But, these two are much closer then most would think when looking at last seasons numbers. Fred was behind only Gronk and Graham in plays over 20 yards but was behind only Gronk in rec average. He also had the highest number of plays over 20 yards vs attempts in the league for TE’s. Makes you pause about this one…for a moment…but that MJ issue is another reason Jason gets the edge here.

          4. BigDaddyTM says:

            John Phillips…who?? I can’t even pull up any info on this guy. Is he a rookie? Chris Cooley is the #1 TE in Skins history. His numbers are fantastic. The problem here is health and age. Chris hurt his knee in 2010 and was unable to rehab it with the trainers during the lockout last season. As a result it didn’t heal correctly (if at all). He fought with it all season last year. He is supposed to be healthy heading into 2012 but I’m hearing disturbing things coming out of Skins country about the way that he is moving on that bad wheel. We’ll see but even so I take Chris over any cowboy TE behind Mr Witten. Even on one leg…

          5. BigDaddyTM says:

            Last but…well, last, we come to James Hanna and Niles Paul. Again, Hanna is a rookie. He looks nice (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLkNUlyDL-8) and (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21HFWfM4JU0&feature=related)) but it is a little difficult to project how he will transition to the pro game. Niles is a second year player who is converting from WR to TE. Most cowboy fans will have no clue how Niles did last season but any Skins fan who watched him perform on special teams knows that Niles is a beast. He was hittin’ so hard in one game that the officials started flagging him ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9kh1YM2JX0 ) this punt returner was an idiot. this was the third (?) nasty hit that he took and Niles is FLYING down field, waited to the last second (just a little too long) before choosing a target and he couldn’t get low enough…)! He has blazing speed and to see him convert to TE is going to be an interesting thing to watch. Can anyone say Sterling Sharpe? Shanahan saw some of the same characteristics in Niles and they actually started this process last season. We don’t have enough of a sample size to justify a pick based on fact, so I’ll list this one as a wash. We’ll know more by the end of camp. If by then we see Niles doing what I think he will then I have to lean towards Niles. His speed at the TE position will put incredible pressure on a defense, creating mismatches against opposing LB’s (just like Sterling did, and that guy is in the Hall). But for now let’s say these two are even.

          6. BigDaddyTM says:

            All of this being said the Boys have TWO receivers that rate higher. That’s Miles and Witten. And Miles is always fighting some injury. To me I would have had Tanna against Miles. In that case I go with Tanna because his health usually isn’t a concern (he DID break his hand last season to be fair). But you can’t have a superior receiving core off of two guys, sorry. Skins win this one 5 to 2. And, yes, I am a Skins fan. That being said I don’t believe that I was unfair or biased in my analysis. If I was I invite you to call me on it…just do some research before you do! I hate getting into a back and forth with a football noobie or an ignorant fan!

      2. Sb2bowl says:

        ^^^
        That’s funny!

    2. Jason says:

      Jason Witten 2011 stats: 16 games, 79 receptions, 942 yards, 5 TD.
      Fred Davis 2011 stats: 12 games, 59 receptions, 796 yards, 3 TD

      They didn’t play the same amount of games (Davis was suspended), so take a look at their averages per game:

      Jason Witten 2011 average per game: 5 receptions, 59 yards .31 TD
      Fred Davis 2011 average per game 5 receptions, 66 yards, .25 TD

      I’m not seeing how Witten puts the Cowboys over the top. He’s basically even with Davis. If anything, its Dallas’ receivers that probably grade out better than the Skins, not the TE’s.

      (Talk about “severe denial”)

      1. yehti says:

        Fred beats him on legalities too.

        is this just about receiving or is it all around?

        1. Jason says:

          Ah, that is a good point. At least according to Witten is the better blocker.

          1. Jason says:

            That should be “according to PFF”

            1. yehti says:

              I was referring to that and just the intangibles, like better teamate. not being suspended for steroids things like that

              1. Jason says:

                Well, it was pot, not steroids, if that makes a difference. Anyway, I think right now Witten is probably a better all-around player, but not by much.

                I also don’t think Davis is like “locker room cancer” or anything like that. He’s young and made a mistake or two, but by all accounts he has the support of the team right now.

              2. slandog says:

                well if you go there you have to bring Bryant down some. He is a pain in the ass of a teammate. Always in financial problems, etc.

      2. yehti says:

        another reason why Wit is better is he Played 16 games…

        1. A Fine Messi says:

          So you saying when DEZ is suspended for 5 games that’ll pump Hankerson as “better” because he will have played 16 games? Or is that in “poor taste” also? “Severe denial”.

          1. yehti says:

            where did I defend Dez? that convo was abouy Wit.

            “severe denial”

          2. yehti says:

            is he suspended for 5 games already?

          3. yehti says:

            poor taste comment was more about joking about hitting a woman. maybe you are good with that but i am not

      3. D.L. says:

        Trust me, anyone who thinks volume stats are useful here is in “severe denial.”

      4. Matth313 says:

        And remember Davis managed to do this with Grossman as his QB.

        I dunno if I’ve been slacking or the Cowboys depth sucks because I only remember three of their players ever playing in games I watched.

        1. ATG says:

          That is just the camera angle, they actually play all 11 players.

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