Random notes from around the NFC East: More Josh Gordon, and some interesting poll data of who NFCE fans view as their biggest rival

– Two of my favorite people that I’ve been around since I’ve had the privilege of covering Eagles games/practices are Tim McManus and Sheil Kapadia.  Yesterday, it was announced that Philly Mag is starting a new blog that will feature both guys.  Tim is the beat reporter for 97.5 the Fanatic in Philly, and Sheil ran the “Moving the Chains” blog for philly.com.  Tim is an outstanding reporter and radio host, and Sheil has been killing it this offseason on his philly.com blog (Sheil is known for his statistical analysis, although I would argue he does so much more).  Awesome hires by Philly Mag.  That site (whatever it will eventually be named) is going to be great.  This opportunity couldn’t have happened to two nicer, more talented guys.

– The Eagles sent a scout to see Josh Gordon yesterday at Gordon’s pro day.  Here were his workout numbers:

It was reported that Gordon pulled his quad during his forty, so I’m not sure how valuable the above numbers really are.

Sam Lynch of IgglesBlitz made a connection of those numbers to Eagles draft pick Marvin McNutt:

Tony Grossi of ESPN Cleveland (there’s an ESPN Cleveland but no ESPN Philly?!?!?) also chimed in with a similar comparison to Texans 3rd round pick DeVier Posey:

Josh Gordon’s pro day workout numbers bear a striking resemblance to another receiver taken in the third round of the regular NFL draft. Gordon timed 4.52 in the 40, had a vertical jump of 36 in., a broad jump of 10 ft., 1 in., and had 13 reps in the bench press. At the NFL combine, DeVier Posey timed 4.50, had a VJ of 36.5, a BJ of 10′-2″, and 14 reps in the bench. Posey was a 3rd round pick of Houston, 68th overall. One difference: Gordon measured 6-3 1/8 and 224 pounds. Posey is 6-1 3/4 and 211.

21 teams attended the pro day.  Apparently, that was more than expected.  Frankly, I’m not sure why 32 teams don’t send representation to this kind of thing.  Get as much due diligence work as you can on the kid.  What is his build?  How did he answer your questions?  Does he seem like a good kid, or a turd?  Whatever you can put into the information file on the kid, the better, whether he plays for you or not.

– The Eagles re-upped with Lehigh through 2013.  Awesome.  Big fan of that setting for Eagles training camp.

– My buddy Steve Shoup of Fanspeak wondered if the Skins would use more 2-TE sets this year (a la the Pats).  I’m not so sure the Skins have the kind of TEs to create the mismatches that Gronkowski and Hernandez create in New England.  Gronkowski is a good run blocker in addition to being a great receiver, and Hernandez is at least serviceable in that department.  Neither Davis nor Cooley can run block.  If you try to go nickle against the Pats in their 2 TE sets, Belichick will hammer you with the run all day.  If you go base, you’re asking linebackers to cover the Gronk and Hernandez.  Personally, I wouldn’t be all that worried going nickle against the Skins’ 2 TE sets.

– Who wants more Josh Gordon speculation? Did I mention I think the Cowboys don’t have a legitimate 3rd WR, and it’s a position that is going to have to be address next offseason even if Gordon can’t reasonably contribute immediately?  Did I mention that I think that hoping Andre Holmes or Raymond Radway are suddenly going to be legitimate 3’s this season is a bit of a stretch? Did I mention I think that we can expect the Cowboys to put in a bid on Gordon in the 3rd round or higher? What is a horse shoe? What does a horse shoe do? Are there any horse socks? Is anybody listening to me?

– A commenter on SB Nation by the handle of “Big Blue in TX” (who is apparently a Giants fan) took polls at each of the 4 NFC East SB Nation sites of who each fan base sees as its biggest rival.  I would link to it, but it’s kind of all over the place.  Anyway, here were the results:

NY Giants Biggest Rivalries (236 votes):
Philadelphia Eagles – 77% (184 votes)
Dallas Cowboys – 20% (48 votes)
Washington Redskins – 1% (4 Votes)

Dallas Cowboys Biggest Rivalries (136 votes):
Philadelphia Eagles – 56% (77 votes)
New York Giants – 33% (45 votes)
Washington Redskins – 10% (14 votes)

Philadelphia Eagles Biggest Rivalries(184 votes):
New York Giants – 63% (117 votes)
Dallas Cowboys – 34% (64 votes)
Washington Redskins – 1% (3 votes)

Washington Redskins Biggest Rivalries (458 votes):
Dallas Cowboys – 70% (325 votes)
Philadelphia Eagles – 15% (72 votes)
New York Giants – 13% (61 votes)

Mildly surprised to see that Dallas fans see the Eagles as the bigger rival than the Giants.  Both the Eagles and Giants have owned the Cowboys over the last two seasons, but the Giants and Cowboys have had more at stake in recent games, and the Giants have obviously had more overall success.


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  3. […] reports come out after the fact, and we can speculate on why they tried to get the kid.  From the morning of the supplemental draft, I gave my thoughts: Did I mention I think the Cowboys don’t have a legitimate 3rd WR, and it’s […]

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  5. seanrude says:

    You set your watch to these bots

    1. seanrude says:

      You CAN set….

  6. D3Keith says:

    Here’s what’s weird about those rival polls.

    The team Philly fans HATE most is Dallas. Hands down, been that way since I started following closely in the late 80s/early 90s, and probably prior.

    But the team that makes our best RIVAL may well be New York, in the sense that they’ve been well-run for the past 10-12 years, they give us fits even when we end up winning, and they’re a competitor that you can respect because they bring out the best in us.

    Remarkable Super Bowl runs aside, the Jason Sehorn-Kerry Collins Giants used to be something of a nemesis for the great teams in the Early Reid era, and I’m still mad about the Plax-Eli OT thing. Probably more than the Super Bowls. And even in the games where we stick a dagger through the Giants’ hearts — How y’all let Vince Young go 18 plays to win a game? — they were games we easily could have lost. Remember if Vick’s pitch is tipped by Osi its a turnover not a 50-yard game-winning TD, etc.

    Dallas and Philly had a nice back-and-forth going with 44-6, and then the three losses the next year, but the rivalry is inconsistent, and as an organization, the Giants are more deserving of the respect given their recent success.

    But if a Cowboys fan and a Giants fan both wanted to fight an Eagles fan at the same time, 85% of Eagles fans would punch the Cowboys fan first.

    (feel free to tell me all that is wrong with that scenario, like how the New York guy is tougher, and really we were just mad that the Cowboys fan was blinding us with his bright yellow Lakers shorts, etc.)

    1. Steve D. says:

      Very well put. I agree 100% – Dallas = most hated; Giants = Biggest rivalry (in recent history).

      “really we were just mad that the Cowboys fan was blinding us with his bright yellow Lakers shorts” – LOL, hilarious!

    2. The Purple Lion says:

      Cowboys are the biggest rival. We have beaten the snot out of the Giants how many times in the past few years. I actually kinda felt bad for them with the Miracle at the New Meadowlands. Cowboys will ALWAYS be the bigger rival.

      Now, the rivalry between Osi and LeSean … thats one for the ages! lol. They need to get the twitter war going again!

    3. ct17 says:

      I share the same sentiment from the Giants point of view. The Eagles games are the biggest, but hearing the term “America’s Team” incites violence in me.

      And Irvin pushed off.

  7. Shaun says:

    Ive contacted ESPN numerous times asking why there isn’t an ESPN philly but I never get a response. It seems kinda weird that most of the major markets (and some smaller ones) have total ESPN coverage for just their city but philly can’t get one. Major market, teams in the 4 major sports, huge fanbase following, etc

    1. D3Keith says:

      I can’t figure out why there isn’t one in D.C. personally. The Post has a very sizeable advantage over its competition despite the fact that this is a four- or five-pro-sport town with a significant college presence. There is ALWAYS some sports news going on here.

      Granted there’s Comcast and good TV reporters and other papers here, but in terms of print/online and someone who could match resources …

      Not that I would jump ship if the Worldwide leader came calling, just seems a more ripe market than Dallas and as ripe as Boston (which has more news outlets, but more rabid fans). LA, NYC and Chicago make total sense.

      Philly on the other hand seems to have a lot of media for its size. Not sure the opening is there quite as much, but maybe ESPN did its research and knows some things we don’t.

    2. Mr.Electric10 says:

      I have wondered this so many times. We have all 4 sports teams and have a loyal and large fan-base. It makes no sense.

      1. D3Keith says:

        The real question is why do any of us want MORE ESPN in our lives? Might as well get a chip implanted in our heads.

  8. Trueblue63 says:

    This Gordon thing just smells like a well orchestrated PR campaign set in motion by a savvy agent.

    He sounds like a 5th rounder to UDFA.

    1. Nice thought, but there are too many really savvy reporters involved in this one.

      1. One.cool.customer says:

        Ooooooo, I may have to come back to you on that quote.

      2. WeGotLinemen says:

        I am going to be massively surprised if someone spends anything more than a 4th on Josh Gordon.

        He has one season with 42-catches, 714-yards, 7-tds. Not bad, but not exactly a stella year. For example, four other players had 42 or more catches for the Bears that year. Kendall Wright caught 78, but 3 other receivers caught 40-plus balls. Gordon was certainly the Bears’ deep guy, but he wasn’t a distinct number 2 receiver, just a member of a receiving corps.

        In 2009 Gordon had 1-catch in 8-games, for 7-yards. He has 7-career kick returns for an average of just a hair under 20-yards and no punt returns.

        Maybe he could be considered a 1-year wonder but that year was more, quite good, rather than wonderful. He will also go into this season with a two year gap between playing any meaningful football. So, that’s a college career that ended in 2010 and consists of 43-catches.

        I just can’t see anyone going overboard on player like that when guys like Mohamed Sanu can be had in the third round of the draft proper.

        I am certain there would be a lot of competition for Josh Gordon’s signature if he becomes a UDFA. It’s quite likely that a number of teams will consider putting in a late round bid but I just cannot see any team spending a 3rd rounder on a guy with such a limited resume.

        1. WeGotLinemen says:

          Consider my ghast well an truly flabbered. A second rounder for a guy with 43-catches. That’s panick buying at its most extreme.

  9. D.L. says:

    “Did I mention I think the Cowboys don’t have a legitimate 3rd WR, and it’s a position that is going to have to be address next offseason . . .”

    Maybe. My personal favorite is actually Danny Coale. Greg Cosell and Matt Waldman liked him too. He shouldn’t miss much of training camp because of his foot injury, so he should have a legitimate shot to be the 3rd WR. It’ll be fun to watch.

    1. I think Coale has a shot to be good. I know draft position isn’t the end-all be-all, but if recent history is any indicator, it’s unlikely he’ll contribute much this year. Over the last 5 years, 18 wide receivers have been drafted in the 5th round. Only 2 provided significant contributions in their rookie season: Danarius Moore and Johnny Knox.

      1. D3Keith says:

        That smells like something you researched a while back and can use over and over again … BAM! STAT. ARGUMENT OVER.

      2. pooleboy87 says:

        Here’s my thinking on that…Coale’s PROBABLY not going contribute his rookie season. But my guess is that neither is Josh Gordon, who’s got 43 college receptions, and hasn’t played any organized football since December 29th, 2010.

        So between Gordan and Coale, my money for who WOULD contribute more this season would be on the guy with 165 receptions in college, and who’s played in the last year.

        So rather than seeing the Cowboys spend a 3rd round pick on ANOTHER physically gifted, but very raw receiver, I would rather the Cowboys see what their young guys can do, then pick somebody up who’s experienced if none of the young guys wind up working out.

        But I really don’t see very much difference between expecting Andre Holmes to work out this year, versus expecting Gordon to be a solution for the 3rd receiver role.

        1. ct17 says:

          Maybe Dwayne Harris? I’d be interested to hear any thoughts on him,similar skill set to Coale.

  10. Joe11 says:

    No way the Cowboys use anything higher than a 3rd on Gordon. A 3rd at best. I think the Eagles are the surprise team.

  11. Sam says:

    The hammy was pulled during the second 40. The first 40 was timed as above. So I think you can assume it is a good representation of Gordon’s speed.

    1. Ah, thanks. Caplan?

  12. juz saying says:

    0 rings must sting a bit also DreamTeam.

    1. Often times, when I read other off-the-radar blogs I’m not totally familiar with, I’ll check out the comment section to see how smart the readers are. It’s a good barometer of how good the blog itself is. You’re damaging my street cred.

      1. Benj says:

        Hahahahahahahaha. Well played!

    2. bdawk4ever says:

      Other than the 3 we have.

      1. SkinsaneAsylum says:

        3 what? do you really want to open this can of worms up?

        1. TheRealMcCoy says:

          Championships. If you deny the fact that the Eagles are champions, you’re probably not an NFL fan. The Eagles are also the only team to beat Lombardi’s team in a national championship.

          Some fans just look at a shiny “Super Bowl” title and think that’s it. People who pay attention to history, however, know better.

          1. giantsfan says:

            Ya, it’s kind of like how the Persian empire was so fucking awesome all those centuries ago, so Iran must currently be the shit too.

            1. Anders says:

              The Eagles won a championship in the history of the NFL, that does not change, the same way it does not change that the Persian empire WAS fucking big, by your logic only the recent champions can say they won? all the other before that can not use it anymore?

              1. deg0ey says:

                As a Giants fan, that would probably suit him quite well 😉

            2. D3Keith says:

              Persian Empire lol.

              I use this line on Redskins fans all the time: Yeah Milli Vanilli was at the top of the charts in 1991 too, but you don’t see them parading their 20-year-old trophies around still.

              Basically, only the Giants can talk. Everyone else’s titles are old.

              And yes Eagles fans hate that we haven’t won a Super Bowl, but start working on some new material, because when we (yes, I play for the team, look it up) do, you guys aren’t going to have any good one-liners.

              1. brisulph says:

                Still plenty of lazy ones though… Philthy, Santa Claus, jail in the old stadium, etc etc etc. Don’t expect effort on the internet, that way when you find it you might be pleasantly surprised.

          2. SkinsaneAsylum says:

            haha, so winning a championship in a totally different league against a lower number of teams competing for the title is equivalent?

            thats like saying the team that won the second tier or B league English Premier League championship in soccer can compare their title to Man U’s Premier League championships.

            the skins would have 5 titles by your measure, but you don’t hear skins fans bragging that they have 5 championships.


            1. TheRealMcCoy says:

              Considering that it was the NFL, the same NFL with the same history…yes. Less teams, sure. But less competitive? Hardly. Ask the players who played in those games. See if they thought it was a championship., and see how competitive they thought the league was back then.

              Yeah, the Redskins won some too. I’m actually surprised you knew that, although Google does do wonders I suppose. I’d count them. It’s almost the same as counting Super Bowl wins from over two decades ago. The NFL has a long history.

              It’s great that you’re a Redskins fan (oxymoron aside), but no matter how many hashtags you put up, you can’t rewrite history.

              1. a Fine Messi says:

                Do you honestly think Skins fans need google to know how many World Championships they’ve won? Sammy Baugh is as highly regarded as Joe Gibbs in D.C., so give the fans a modicum of credit.

                Furthermore, how is being a Redskins fan an oxymoron? Look around the league and tell me which other franchise’s fan base would sell out their stadium year after year after 20 years of futility under Dan Snyder?

              2. TheRealMcCoy says:

                It’s not letting me comment on your post, Messi, so this is for you:

                No, I don’t think ‘Skins fans in general need to look online for team history. I think THIS fan does. I have a good amount of respect for ‘Skins fans, just like very other fanbase…except the Cowboys (I kid). If you think that I was referring to the entire fanbase, that’s not the case.

                I was referencing to “great” and “Redskins” in the same sentence. Kind of a jab in the moment, I’ll admit, but there you go. And even most Redskins fans agree that those sell-outs are non-existent, and are more or less the FO buying empty seats. Hence why Redksins games do have huge patches of empty seats. Wasn’t there an article on this very subject written a week or so ago?

            2. giantsfan says:

              Let me put it this way. When the Eagles won their last “championship” gas cost .31 cents a gallon, unemployment was at 5.5%, and IKE was president. Looking around now, that world is just about as foreign as the one that existed when the Persian empire was relevant. Consequently, I stand by my analogy.

              1. D3Keith says:

                And you sir are the only one who has anything to stand by.

                The Redskins and Cowboys haven’t done jack since the mid-1990s, when Hammer and Vanilla Ice ruled the charts.

                IMO only the reigning champion should talk. Everything else is rather useless.

              2. Brian says:

                So then, by that logic, the Bill Russel era championships that the Celtics won don’t count either? How about the Micky Mantle era Yankees championships? Worthless too? Just wondering where you get to draw the line, as I have never heard anyone argue these legends rings don’t count, even though the Eagle’s last championship came during the same time period.

            3. Steve D. says:

              All of the cowboys’ and redskins’ championships also were won against a lower number of teams competing for the title. Only the giants have won a championship (actually two) since the league has expanded to its current size. Should only championships since 2002 (I think) count?

              Bringing up the Eagles championships from ’48, ’49, and ’60 illustrates how stupid the whole “never won a super bowl” argument is. The Cowboys haven’t won in 16 years an the redskins haven’t won in 20+ years – at this point, those wins are no more relevant than the Eagles NFL championship of 1960.

          3. Phillyboijr says:

            Lol, “championships?”

            Oh, you mean the “championships” the Eagles won when there wasn’t even an NFL? When there was only like eight teams in the entire league? When they wore leather helmets….scratch that…when they wore leather helmets without facemasks? When the pregame tailgate party involved circling the wagons around the stadium?

            Congrats on your “championships!” Let me know when you win a Super Bowl.

            1. SkinsaneAsylum says:

              This comment is for the “Real”McCoy:

              I can handle your ridiculous arguments about how the Eagles are champions. Us Redskins fans literally got a great laugh out of it over on some other blogs. So thanks for the cheap entertainment, I guess.

              However, if you think I needed to Google anything about my team you are sadly mistaken. I get that my comment probably fired you up and you felt the need to attack my own personal aptitude for my favorite team’s history.

              Unfortunately for you, you underestimate not only yours truly but the Redskins fan base as a whole. What do you think keeps the fans of the Redskins so passionate if not for the long storied history and success of the franchise? I am not ashamed to admit that it’s most likely not the two playoff seasons we have had in the last decade plus. If you actually took the time to rationally speak with Redskins fans instead of attempting to (and i am now speaking directly from experience) spit on not only Redskins fans’ wives but players’ wives at games in Philly, throw beer/batteries/trash, throw sucker punches only in from the safety of a large group, and constantly verbally harass women and children….then you might realize how knowledgeable and supportive of the true history of this great sport that Redskins fans truly are.

              Long story short, go walk into on-coming traffic sir.

              You are not doing your fan base or team any favors by picking fights with division opponents when the evidence you are toting into said argument(s) is your NFL championship from 60+ years ago.

              How sweet do those titles taste to you? At least I can say I was alive to see the Redskins win two SuperBowls of the three in their trophy case. It solidified my rabid passion for the team.

              How/why are you an Eagles fan? B/c they almost won something important a few times in recent memory? Or is it that 1960 title banner you probably display proudly on your wall?

              1. shvd98z24 says:

                and I answered the poll on HogsHaven as Cowboys. Just want to get all that out of the way. Generally, I jump in and support my side no matter what. However, I don’t agree with Skinsane here. He is projecting just as much as was projected onto him. I think it’s unfair to categorize anyone individually…at least not based off what I have read so far. Here is a response I put up on the blog post asking about rivalries:

                “Easily the Cowboys…..

                but as much as I hate them…..it’s not the same. The Cowboys and Skins really got hot during the late 80’s/early 90’s. The great thing was…no matter what side you were on…you hated the other team because of how good the teams were. Now it’s actually a really sad rivalry because neither team has been worth a shit in years. I think subconsciously, a lot of us simply hate hearing about how good the Cowboys will be every offseason…just to watch them suck like we have. That’s really all that is keeping it going until both teams get their shit together. Honestly though….I can keep running on the hatred from the early 90s for at least another decade….haha.

                Another big reason that the Cowboys are so hated here…because of the bandwagon bitches that have been running around here for the last 25 years that have never even been to Texas. Eagles fans….assholes…but common transplants to this area…..same with the Giants. You ask them where they are from…generally they are from those respective states. 90% of Cowboys fans have never even been there…..can’t answer a question from anything prior to Jerry Jones getting the team….let alone who the backup LT is now!

                Can we please just START THE F@#*ING SEASON?!?!?!

                by shvd98z24 on Jul 3, 2012 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs “

              2. SkinsaneAsylum says:

                wait a sec, you mentioned that you disagree with me but then your post discusses a slightly different topic…

                are you disagreeing about the Eagles and the NFL championships counting as equal to Super Bowl titles?

              3. shvd98z24 says:

                I disagree with your attacking style and calling people out like you were…..I read what they were saying differently and I think they answered appropriately considering how I felt your comments came across. Other than that, championships are championships but I do agree that those early championships don’t compare to a SuperBowl. I also agree with some of the generalizations about fanbases. The rest of the post was more just to comment on the topic…not all a response to you. Too lazy to do 2 posts! Not trying to ruffle you up….just didn’t want to automatically get jumped on by people assuming I was lumping on to your attack mode…..carry on sir!

  13. ATLeagle says:

    44-6 must still sting a bit 🙂

    1. D.L. says:

      Only as much as 24-0, 34-14. 😉

      1. ATLeagle says:

        It isnt like those games were going to decide who goes to the post-season or anything … oh, wait…

    2. Blue Eyed Devil says:

      Keep strummin that air guitar McNabb

  14. KJ Brophy says:

    Kinda cool that we’re the most hated team now, & agree with our poll it goes Giants, Cowboys, Redskins for me, surprised Redskins got 3 votes just don’t see how you can hate them over the Giants or Cowboys they are the little brother of the division

    1. a Fine Messi says:

      Little brother with 3 more trophies in their attic than the Eagles…

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