Discussion: You’re a head coaching candidate being courted by the Eagles and Giants… Who are you picking?

 

Fascinating question by Tommy Lawlor over at IgglesBlitz that very much falls under my jurisdiction.  It’s one of those debate type questions that’s just sitting on a tee, and when you see it, you’re almost mad at yourself for not having already thought of it:

PHI vs NYG.

We have a pair of underachieving teams.  Both coaches are on the hot seat, to some extent.  For the sake of argument, let’s say both coaches get fired.  Let’s then say that both teams are interested in the same coaching candidate.

Which team does the coach choose and why?

The question is so simple, and yet the answer is so complex.  It’s one of those 5,000-10,000 word post questions.  Tommy’s audience is probably 95+% Eagles fans, but I was also interested in hearing reactions from Giants fans, and maybe even more so from Cowboys and Redskins fans.  So please, humor me: Who ya got, and why?

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      We were overachieving JUST because of injuries. Not lack of roster upgrades/key FA losses.

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      1. Joe D says:

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  61. Chris says:

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  62. Gary says:

    I’d have to go Eagles. What does almost every Eagles fan agree has been the main problem this year? Coaching. Players being misused. Not a lack of talent, excluding perhaps linebacker and safety. As much as we Eagles fans hate the Dream Team moniker, we got it for a reason (other than Vince Young’s stupidity). We have some of the best players in the league. Much better o-line, a top 5 d-line (though the Giants’ is probably #1), great young core of skill position players (DeSean pending), and outstanding corners. One concern would be that just about every good Eagles’ defender is about 30 or older. I guess I’m going at this assuming the coach is in a “win now” mode, though.

    One thing that would make me hesitate to take the Eagles would be Eli. I’d probably rather have him over Vick right now since he’s shown he can win a Super Bowl and he’s a lot more durable.

    I’d also probably rather have the Giants’ front office. They seem to be better talent evaluators and better drafters. The Eagles’ is better financially however.

    Overall, Eagles.

    1. slandog says:

      Giants D-line has really done nothing this season? What makes you think they are #1. They have been good in the past, but I’d go with the Eagles D-line being much better then the Giants.

      1. BBI says:

        Why is it that the Eagles D is great, but misused by the defensive coordinator….but the Giants defense sucks because of talent level?

        We play just as much zone as the Eagles, have 10x the amount of injuries each game on defense than the Eagles, we rarely blitz, have 3 man pass rushes with our DEs at NT. We have JPP and Tuck playing DT and misused. Antrel Rolle can’t play friggin’ safety because he has to play nickel corner AND LB.

        That’s why we suck. Our DC is a herpderp, and we’ve been ravaged by injuries.

        Giants DL has more sacks than the Eagles (I think. If not, very close). We rarely blitz, don’t use the Wide 9 NEARLY as much, and have a shit ton more 3 man rushes than the Eagles incorporate. Our run defense suffers because we play DEs at DT so much. Your run defense sucks too.

        1. Joe D says:

          we rarely blitz either

          I think the Giants line does get more hype due to their reputation, and what they have done in the past, so I think that’s where he’s coming from.

          Osi disappears, and sucks in the run

          Tuck and JPP are studs, but Tuck is often nicked up. They’re solid bunch, but I don’t think they are the vaunted D-line that made the sb 07 run magical either.

          I agree on injuries but the eagles have had them too. In fact, our starting qb has missed a few games almost every season now since 09….

          1. BBI says:

            Osi = Babin. Tuck when healthy = Cole. JPP > Graham. Tollefson = Phillip Hunt/Juqua Parker.

            Cullen Jenkins > Linval Joseph. Canty very slightly > Patterson.

            1. peterhad says:

              edit JPP>>>>Graham

  63. BBI says:

    Well lets see…

    Owner:

    Jeffrey Lurie vs John Mara.

    Both have shown that while they like to be involved with their teams, they are content to let the GM and HC make many of the decisions.
    Also, both have shown that they are loyal to the coaches that they have, and give them a fair chance to succeed.

    I’d give Mara an extremely marginal edge (and by that, I mean a nonfactor) because he has a little more power when it comes to ownership and the relationship with Roger Goodell. He’s the chair of communications or something like that, I don’t know.

    Front Office:

    I think both Reese and Roseman are very good GMs. Both have different strengths, I think. I think its fair to say Reese is a very strong drafter and evaluator of talent, as he was formerly Head of Scouting.

    I think Roseman, however, is a financial wizard. He’s able to gather free agents and provide cap-friendly deals. Reese seems to stretch the cap a little too much.

    In the end, I give a slight edge to Reese, because I think he can give you the best chance to add young talent, and as a new HC, I’d rather have that. But it isn’t like Roseman is bad, so its only a slight edge.

    Roster:

    QB – I think the edge goes to the Giants. Vick might be more electrifying, but I don’t know how long he lasts, and I think he’s inconsistent. With Eli, you have stability there. Maybe not in performance, but you know that he’ll be at least above average through the course of the season, and he’ll stay healthy.

    RB – Easily Eagles. McCoy is young. Is a beast. Is healthy. Bradshaw is young. Can be a beast, but not as beastly. Is hurt. Brandon Jacobs is an ass.

    WR – Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz….awesome. Maclin and Avant….awesome. Mario Manningham and Desean Jackson are FAs. Riley Cooper and Ramses Barden…tie.

    TE: Ballard and Celek…tie to slight edge to Celek. Bear Pascoe vs Clay Harbor….I like Harbors catching ability, but Pascoe’s downfield blocking….tie.

    OL – Eagles. They are younger and more talented. Though, the foundation of the OL – the LT, Beatty is younger. Now Peters is heads and shoulders more talented than Beatty, but Beatty is no slouch, and is 3 years younger. Still not enough to give him the edge over Peters, but is definitely a consideration. Same thinking, but reversed for Danny Watkins/Chris Snee. Evan Mathis > Diehl, Herremans > McKenzie, Baas > or = Kelce.

    DL – Giants. Talent wise, they are similar. But Babin, Jenkins, Cole are their playmakers and on the wrong side of 30 (Cole is close to it). By comparison, the biggest playmaker on the Giants right now is JPP who is 22 years old. Linval Joseph is fast becoming their best DT. He is 23. Tuck is the same age as Cole, and Osi is the same as Babin. Eagles have Brandon Graham who is unproven. Giants have Marvin Austin who is unproven. Eagles have Trevor Laws/Derek Landri who are talented, Giants counter with Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard, who are older, but just as talented.

    LB – I want to say Giants, but slightly. Kiwanuka and Boley at SAM and WILL are better than their Eagle counterparts. I told everyone on BGN that Brian Rolle would be a beast (still doesn’t beat out Boley though as of right now), and I was right. Jacquain Williams and Herzlich show similar potential. Both have youth, so I think Kiwi breaks the tie.

    Secondary – I’m going to say Eagles, but slightly. Nnamdi and Asante are great, but older. Still…they are great. Corey Webster is great, but slightly less so than those two. Aaron Ross = DRC in my eyes in terms of talent. Terrell Thomas is very good. Still, Nnamdi and Asante > Corey Webster and Terrell Thomas (another factor is that TT and Ross are both FAs). Biggest thing in Giants favor is Prince Amukamara. I haven’t seen enough of Curtis Marsh, but I’m going to go ahead and say that I think Prince has a bright future. Also, Giants safeties > Eagles safeties.

    So recap:

    Ownership: Tie, marginal if any edge to Giants

    Front Office: Slight edge to Giants

    Roster: Tie.

    If I were a new HC, I’d love both destinations. Put a gun to my head as a neutral HC, and I’d say Giants by the slightest of margins.

    1. Joe D says:

      agree with just about everything

      except maybef ront office. eagles alwalys have cap room, we are always doing great trades, and have enough money to get top flight FAs when needed. OBVIOUSLY, it doesn’t always work out…but like Jimmy said, th epast few years, reese hasn’t impressed that much…

      the eagles may have not won a sb in our decade of dominance in the NFC E, but we have been way more consistent than the giants who have done this

      05 – bounced 1st round
      06 – bounced 1st round
      07 – miracle sb win
      08 – bounced first game
      09-11 (likely 11) – no playoffs at all…

      i don’t know that you can edge the giant’s FO

  64. Will says:

    Depends on what you’re looking for. If you think you can work with Michael Vick and the… differences he bring from a “traditional” quarterback than you’d go with the Eagles. Same if you want to put your own stamp on the franchise. Due to the complete mess of this season, a new coach has a blank cheque to change the team in pretty much any way they like.

    For the Giants, you’re ensured stability. Note I’m not saying the Eagles are unstable, but Mara and Tisch, once they choose a guy, are very loyal. Also I think the Giants are a better team, but that’s a matter of opinion

  65. Jason-E says:

    The roster for the Eagles has more upside. The Giants have a QB who has proven he can be clutch, and win the big games. But that’s all irrelevant.

    If I’m a new coach, I’m picking the Giants for one reason: I’m not going to try and replace a legend. Coughlin won a super bowl, but nothing about his tenure says that he’s going down as one of the all-time great head coaches of the giants. Reid is already the best (or second best) coach in Eagles history. I’m not going to put that on me. In NY, all I have to do is get the team to win consistently through Nov/Dec to prove myself better than Coughlin.

    1. Will says:

      While I personally disagree with your last sentence, I agree most people and the media will definitely see it that way.

      1. Jason-E says:

        Yeah, that was speaking more towards perception, and not nessecarily reality.

  66. J says:

    I agree with The Legend, re Andy and the pick. The Giants have had a good run on the back of some strange wins and we have seen the flip side of that in Philadelphia. Rewind the clock and give me a true off season to work with the Eagles and I think we turn that dynamic on its head.

    By the way, Jimmy, I was wondering why you chose a picture of Tokyo (Odaiba to be precise) to represent New York. As a long-time Eagles fan and former resident of Tokyo, I am offended.

    1. Haha, oh shit… you’re right. I’m leaving it up as punishment for my own stupidity.

  67. The Legend says:

    Well first let me say I don’t think Andy will be fired but for this post I’ll act like he does…

    I take the Eagles easily, you got a young team that’s ready to win right now instead of an old team & the Eagles despite what all the analysts will tell you(especially the NFLN guys) have a better defense(it could possibly be really good if they had a good DC) & a better offense

    1. BBI says:

      The Giants have a young team too. OL is only old at RT and LG. We are going to get a new LG, and we already drafted our RT of the future.

      We have a good defense as well (or we would if we had a competent DC)….same situation as you.

      And as good as Lesean McCoy is, Ahmad Bradshaw isn’t lightyears away. He isn’t as explosive, but he ain’t terrible. And I firmly believe he’s a better pass protector than McCoy is.

      1. brisulph says:

        our HOPEFUL RT of the future.

    2. Redskins Fan says:

      And that’s one I’d chalk up the OTHER way.

      No way I go based on another coaches talent where I’m going to be EXPECTED to win it all immediately; I’m in a lose-lose situation even IF I win the SB in the first year or two, because the previous coach will get all the credit (oh, he just won because of the team Andy Reid built).

      I think BOTH teams, the Eagles and Giants, could potentially be extremely good teams in the next three years…. but the expectations on the Giants coach is lower (because of the hype around the Eagles current roster, not because of the roster; I think it’s debateable which teams actual roster is better, since they are both deficient in some areas and strong in others), so when I do have success, I get the credit.

      1. norman says:

        Uh… winning a superbowl with a roster Reid built but couldn’t win with after 12 years is a bad thing?

        Gruden won a superbowl year 1 with Dungys built team. That’s 1 more than Philadelphia has ever had.

  68. GiantsFan says:

    Humor you? ok…

    Giants because…..
    1) Better QB
    2) Better D-Line Potential
    3) Better Receivers (I’d like to hear you argue against this)
    4) Better fans (Just telling the truth)

    Obviously I’m HIGHLY biased here…..

    1. “Which team has the better roster?” is of course very important, and you could certainly make an argument for the 3 bullet points you presented there. Of course, there are the Giants’ weaknesses, too. As Brisulph pointed out above, the OL needs revamping (personally, I’d use a stronger word than revamping, but we’ll go with revamping for now). Plus, the defense is in the bottom 10 in the league in passing yards, rushing yards, total yards, and points scored.

      The Giants do have some good things in place. So do the Eagles. But I wouldn’t call the roster debate a clear win for the Giants by any stretch.

      1. giants fan says:

        I’d like to point out, I am not Giants Fan.

    2. bdawk4ever says:

      1. ??? No way.
      2. Possibly.
      3. ??? No way.
      4. ??? No way.

  69. Free Plax says:

    Both would be ideal coaching situations for a new coach, I would say it would come down to the almighty dollar and what kind of control is offered.

  70. brisulph says:

    Well, looking purely at the two teams, if you are a guy who likes to mold young players, I think Philly is your place (and you draft a new QB round 1 if you can, as Vick is getting old-ish, and you can use his last couple years to work the backup into starter role). Not that the Giants lack young talent, but they are not near as young as the Eagles core (and I think a bunch of the signed talent for this year goes away/does not resign).

    As for picking the Giants… maybe you think you can fix the D? If the D gets fixed, they become a very competent, scary team. Well, that and some o-line revamping.

  71. Sam says:

    As much as it pains me to say so, I pick the Giants. No way to do I want to rely on Howie Roseman for my talent.

    1. Ryan says:

      Yes. This.

    2. Agreed. I wouldn’t want Howie shopping for my groceries. Although, on the other side of the coin, while Jerry Reese had some success early in his tenure, he’s done a pretty bad job in recent years. I’m not sure I’d want him shopping for my groceries either, although I’d trust Jerry more than Howie.

      The debate then becomes “Which team is giving me more control over personnel decisions?”

      1. Sam says:

        I don’t need control. I need someone who will work with me, not against me. Reese will at least try to support what I do. Howie will make me coach what he thinks I should do. That’s a big problem.

    3. shane says:

      Ya. Id hate work for a guy who brought in nnamdi, Jenkins, babin, young, drc, Steve smith in a two week period. Would be a terrible idea

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